Re: [RNPROF] rain events | RADONLEADERS.ORG

From Name

Bill Angell

From Address

wangell@UMN.EDU

Colleagues,All good comments around the question and I will add two additional
perspectives.
First, my interpretation of the research around this question may be
summarized as follows (as covered in the training offered by the U.S.
EPA founded Regional Radon Training Centers):
* Nero & Nazaroff (1983) found radon significantly increased in an
Oregon house during a period of significant rainfall and
decreasing barometric pressure. They hypothesized that the rain
reduced the permeability of the soil surrounding the house and
thus, the house became the route for soil gas to escape
* Similar hypothesis by Montague, /et al./ (1991) following five
month study of a PA house
* Hoffman and May (1997) reported on 5 years of radon, barometric
pressure and rainfall measured daily in an Illinois house with
slab and crawl space. They found indoor radon concentration were:
inversely associated with barometric pressure; varied depending on
amounts and duration of rainfall - - - little effect with few
1/10s of an inch of intermittent precipitation and very large
surges of radon with .75 to 1 inch of rainfall
Do these observations hold true in every state? I would guess the answer
is probably yes to varying degrees but I am unaware of a national survey
that gives us that insight. This sounds like a great research project.
Second, let’s be more precise what EPA’s device protocols say, ‘Tests
lasting 2 or 3 days should not be conducted if severe storms with high
winds (for example, > 30 mph) or rapidly changing barometric pressure
are predicted during the measurement period.’ In my teaching, I usually
state that it is very difficult to be more precise in a national
definition of severe storms with high winds since “severe” and “high”
will vary by geographic region. Illinois takes a stab at a more precise
definition when their rules note the National Weather Service definition
of severe storms as one that generates 58 mph winds and/or 3/4” hail and
that may produce tornadoes.
The AARST National Standards Consortium is gearing up to revise and
re-ballot its measurement protocols. I encourage each reader to consider
volunteering to be part of this process by contacting Gary Hodgden
Join us at the AARST International Radon Symposium in September in St.
Louis to continue this discussion.
Cordially,
Bill
David Grammer wrote:
> I agree with Phil: The extremes are the only time that this should apply.
>
> The simple statement of not testing during periods of heavy rain ½” or more
> of rain a day & high winds 30 MPH or more is conveniently misconstrued by
> sellers when radon tests are conducted during real estate transactions. In
> the NE this past year these weather conditions seem the norm. If testing in
> the NW theses are conditions found daily.
>
> David Grammer
>
>
>
> From: International Web Resource for Radon Professionals
> [mailto:RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phillip H. Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:59 AM
> To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [RNPROF] rain events
>
>
>
> I've seen data from instances of extreme rain (like flooding of a region
> that more or less is on top of a gravel pit that hasn't been dug out yet, in
> other words saturating highly fractured rock with water) that caused a huge
> burst of radon, causing indoor (and outdoor) radon concentrations to exceed
> 100 pCi/liter. But, on the other hand, it may be that under a different set
> of geology and soil conditions, rain might have the opposite effect. I
> don't know.
>
>
>
> I have seen data when a hurricane was passing through the northeast, where a
> continuous monitor went from low (like below 4) to well above 100 pCi/liter,
> indoors during a normal test, and then back down again, over the course of
> 24 hours or so. This is an extreme condition that caused the indoor radon
> to be elevated. Do all storm fronts cause indoor to be elevated? I don't
> know. Could a storm front cause indoor radon to be decreased? I don't
> know.
>
>
>
> I think it is dangerous to generalize about radon because there are so many
> variables. I think the point of the protocols is that when weather
> conditions are so severe as to be significantly different from the "norm"
> whatever that is, then this is a time when the test is suspect, and probably
> should be repeated. Now, we all know that there are many problems with the
> protocols, and this is why we need consensus standards (that must be
> reviewed periodically and modified as appropriate). My recollection is that
> the protocols do not give a lot of specific guidance as to what is
> significantly different from the "norm." And even if they do, what was it
> based on? That was over 15 years ago. Do we have data in the meantime that
> would clarify or refine the guidance?
>
>
>
> There is still so much work to be done.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 this morning,
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phillip H. Jenkins, PhD, CHP
> Senior Health Physicist
> Bowser-Morner, Inc.
> Mail: P.O. Box 51 - Dayton, OH 45401
> Delivery: 4514 Taylorsville Road - Dayton, OH 45424
> Voice: (937) 236-8805 x248
> Fax: (937) 233-2024
> E-mail: pjenkins@bowser-morner.com
> Web: www.bowser-morner.com
>
> _____
>
> From: Dave Hill [mailto:dhill@SPRUCE.COM]
> To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU
> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:46:23 -0400
> Subject: Re: [RNPROF] rain events
>
> The protocols for testing cannot be ignored if the test is below 4 pCi/l. If
> the proper conditions were not met, the test should be redone. When building
> a home, you cannot say it is okay to use undersized floor joists because the
> house did not collapse. Standards and protocols are adopted to help lessen
> the chance of error in result reporting (high or low) and increase the
> ability to perform testing in similar controlled (repeatable) conditions.
>
>
>
>
>
> My 2,
>
> Dave Hill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: International Web Resource for Radon Professionals
> [mailto:RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU] On Behalf Of Al Gerhart
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:06 AM
> To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [RNPROF] rain events
>
>
> Interesting, my experiences with our radon room and granite countertops are
> that high wind conditions or storm fronts entering or leaving the state will
> lower radon readings from a CRM.
>
>
>
> In traditional radon tests, is this due to the stack effect pulling radon
> into the home?
>
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Kanah, Inc. wrote:
>
>
> From: Kanah, Inc.
> Subject: [RNPROF] rain events
> To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU
> Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 8:51 PM
>
> I know that the Homebuyers, Citizens, and protocols say not to test in bad
> weather and that the wind speed is to be >30 mph. So low pressure, high
> winds all call for the test to be repeated. I figure that if the test is low
> under these conditions it's a keeper.
>
> My question is, high winds and low pressure being absent, how much rain
> would be needed to cause the data to be thrown out? Would you need to see a
> large spike in the data using a continuous monitor?
>
> It is very easy, using archive radar data, to see weather conditions during
> the testing period but when I question the test, I'm accused of
> "cherrypicking" good data. Test results are usually between 4 and 10 pCu/L
> and no mention is made of weather conditions during the test.
>
> I see this often and usually recommend that a long term test be done but the
> buyers are already trembling in their boots at the thought of living in such
> dire conditions.
>
> So, how much rain?
>
> steve stokes
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> _____
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